Let's Discuss

I'm afraid it's the end .....

2009-05-02T12:21:00.002-05:00

Hello, wonderful Shack readers.

Well, I hate to do this, but I think that I have to discontinue the discussion. The month of May is going to be a whirlwind for me (I'm out of town as I write this) and there's no way I can keep leading it. The kids are coming home next weekend, I have a daughter graduating from college the next weekend and then I'm heading to Russia the day after that to visit our oldest child.

Tom graciously posted the discussion last week and we didn't get any comments. It would appear that the interest, and/or the time is waning.

I know that May is a hugely busy month for many people.

Now, if anyone feels strongly about this ...... and would like to lead the discussion I'd be happy to work that out.

Someone could even just write one last post that would sum up the rest of the book if they wanted to.

I'm sorry to have to bow out like this ...... I think the the chapter-by-chapter method made it too long.

I would love to continue discussing other books or topic here ..... which is why I called the site "Let's Discuss".

If you have any ideas for topics or books that we could talk about .... I'd really appreciate hearing them.

So once again ....... please jump in and and discuss .......

2009-04-27T14:42:00.004-05:00

Janine asked me to fill in, which I’m always happy to do. So let’s get started. This is a great chapter…but then, aren’t they all?

This chapter starts out with a good quote – any thoughts on that? – and an interesting idea right from the start. Mack sees Papa sitting on the porch and says,
“What’s this? God has time to catch a few rays? Don’t you have anything better to do this afternoon?”
“Mack, you have no idea what I’m doing right now.”
Ummm, maybe upholding all things by the power of His word.??? Sustaining the all of creation … right down to the little details like our breath and our heart beeat??? How can we even begin to grasp the One with whom we have to do?

I totally identify with Mack on p.184, when he admits, “I’ve been pretty hard on you,” to God. How many times have I literally shook my fist in God’s face and presumptuously told Him I could do a better job of running the universe. Is this a common failing? Or am I just a uniquely perverse egotist?

Young gets into something in this chapter that is very interesting to me. And I’m not sure I agree with his take. I’d appreciate your thoughts. It begins at the bottom of p.185, and continues on to the next page. And it is touched on again on the top of p. 187, and again on p.192. It is the idea of the extent of God’s involvement in the bad things that happen to us. Young has Papa saying that He doesn’t orchestrate tragedy, He doesn’t cause it. And this is a concept that has to be handled very delicately and with nuance. But it strikes me that if Sovereignty means anything at all, it means that nothing, NOTHING, happens without God having given His okay.

Look at the Book of Job. Satan accuses that Job will curse God to His face if He “touches” him, but in so doing, he acknowledges that only God has the authority to do that. And then God gives him permission, with limits. Satan isn’t the direct agent of destruction, the Sabeans, the tornado, etc. are. Satan is the indirect cause. But it only happened because God said ‘okay’.

The nuance is that God has a purpose. God knows the end from the beginning. And God’s values are for His glory and eternal in scope while ours tend to be selfish and time-bound. As Isaiah put it, My ways are not your ways and my thoughts are not your thoughts. As far as the heavens are above the earth so far are my thoughts above your thoughts and my ways above your ways. God is not a bully. God is a parent dealing with a two-year old. Sometimes a parent causes a child pain for his own good. Think of a flu shot, for example.

So what do you think? Is this an idea that is all wet? Or can you see it? For me it has become a real anchor. Because I know that if God has a purpose, it is for my good; He loves me. What do you think?

Skipping ahead, I find the idea on the top of p.189, fascinating. The idea that lies and the relational games we can play are rooted in fear. How do you feel about that? Do you know people who are fearful in the way they live their lives? What kinds of dysfunctions does fear produce besides lies?

I love the section in the middle of p.190 down to the bottom, about the results of man’s quest for independence. What are your thoughts, responses to the idea there?

Finally, what is your response to the idea about the ultimate purpose of Creation on p.191 to 192? It just blows me away.

And one of the most touching lines in the whole book is the last sentence of the chapter. It brought me to tears. Wouldn’t you love to be able to kiss Papa on the cheek?

So, there are some of the high points for me. What grabbed your attention?

Tom

Chapter 12: In the Belly of the Beasts

2009-04-18T21:15:00.005-05:00

Hello again, Shack readers.

Last week was another pretty quiet week, so I'm going to ask everyone if this is something I should continue doing?

There are 18 chapters, so that means 6 more weeks left. Are you starting to get burned out?

I realize that it's been Easter and Spring Break, so maybe it's been a bit more difficult to read and/or comment, but I'd like as many opinions as possible, please.

If there's a big loss of interest now then we can either stop here or we can try to wrap it all up a lot sooner.

That being said, I will comment on Chapter 12. This will be a difficult post because I had passages underlined on every single page of this chapter. I can't write about all of them because this post would be way too long and I'd be writing all night.

So again, please know that I'm just pointing out a few items and am hoping that you will point out the ones that struck you.

Did anyone have any thoughts about the two quotes that he used to open up this chapter? I thought they both spoke volumes.

As this chapter opens Mack is on his way back to meet Jesus, after his "judgement" meeting in the cave (with the woman we find out now is named, Sophia).

The amazing thing is ..... he realizes now that "The Great Sadness" is gone .... and he now wonders who he'll be now ..... now that he's letting all of that go? How will it be "to walk into each day without the guilt and despair that had sucked the coors of life out of everything."

I wonder that for myself sometimes, too. Not that I feel any guilt over Jim's death, but I definitely have felt despair ... and great sadness. Some times it's hard to remember what it was like "before" ...... when I felt joy at so many things .... so many blessings. I didn't have to work at feeling blessed ... or joyful. Just an aside from me.

I was very moved by Jesus' telling of being with Missy ..... through everything that happened to her .... everything. And that Missy was actually more worried about Mack, and her siblings and that she had prayed for their peace.

And I was moved when, as Mack's tears poured forth at this news, Jesus drew him into His arms and held him.

And as Jesus held him ..... Mack no longer felt alone. What a huge release he must've felt with each tear that fell .... and with every second that he was held tightly by Jesus.

On page 174 Jesus says, "The darkness hides the true size of fears and lies and regrets. The truth is they are more shadow than reality, so they seem bigger in the dark. When the light shines into the places they live inside you, you start to see them for what they are."

This spoke straight to my heart.

Thoughts?

There is a description, by Jesus, on page 175 of a real relationship .... with what They want with Mack ... with us. This is a kind of friendship that has started to be very real for me .... not just with Them, but also here .... on this earth ....... with brothers and sisters who are Christ in skin for me:

Mack asks Jesus what he needs to do now .... to change and to not be lost in the dark anymore.

"What you're already doing, Mack, learning to live loved. It's not an easy concept for humans. You have a hard time sharing anything. So, yes, what we desire is for you to 're-turn' to us, and then we come and make our home inside you, and then we share. The friendship is real, not merely imagined. We're meant to experience this life, your life, together, in a dialogue, sharing the journey. You get to share in our wisdom and learn to love with our love and we get ... to hear you grumble and gripe and complain, and ...,"

I think that this is what we, as Christians, are meant to do with one another. As I said earlier, I am very blessed to have this kind of friendship ...... this relationship ..... here on earth.

We are meant to experience our lives together ..... through the good, and especially through the bad.

Thoughts?

On page 176 Mack tells Jesus that he's not sure why we (humans) resist Him/Them so much, and that it seems kind of stupid. Jesus says that it's all part of the timing of grace.

What are your thoughts on why we resist Them so much?

Another passage that struck me in on page 178. Jesus talks about the "church" and what His definition of that is.

My physical church is currently trying to convey this message to our members. It seems to simple to me (as Jesus tells Mack) but some people seem to really be struggling with it. That struggle is difficult for me to understand.

Here is what Jesus says:

"It's simple, mack. It's all about relationships and simply sharing life. What we are doing right now -- just doing this -- and being open and available to others around us. My church is all about people and life is all about relationships. You can't build it. It's my job and I'm actually pretty good at it."

I love this ..... it's really a repeat of what He said earlier about what They want out of a relationship with us. They want that for each of us with each other, too.

Thoughts?

I will end with the topic on page 182 ..... the part of the book that I think most Christians struggle with.

Jesus says that he's not a Christian. And then he proceeds to tell Mack that those who love Him come from every system in the world ..... all religions, all political sects, all who go - or don't go - to church, all citizens of the world from every country.

"I have no desire to make them Christian, but I do want to join them in their transformation into sons and daughters of my Papa, into my brothers and sisters, into my Beloved."

What are your thoughts on this passage? What about John 14:6 -- Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

Do you think Young is negating this or is he affirming it?

I think that this passage in the book has been a "sticking point" for a lot of people.

So there you go ..... some points on Chapter 12 to discuss.

Again, please let me know if you're still interested in continuing this discussion. It has been rather long and so it may be time to move on to something else.

Have a good week.

Chapter 11: Here Come Da Judge

2009-04-13T21:59:00.002-05:00

Yes, it's Monday so I am a day late (and more than a dollar short).

I thought about skipping this week, but don't want this to start dragging too much.

Today's post will be shorter than it would have been if I'd done it yesterday, had yesterday not been Easter, but it was, and I didn't ..... so it's not.

There ya go.

Chapter 11 starts off with Mack "passing through" a solid stone wall ..... into complete and utter darkness.

I could feel his fear.

I have been in that blackness ..... where you can only put one foot in front of the other, as your hands reach out in front of you ..... and you sometimes run into things because you can only concentrate on your feet.

The blackness certainly makes you appreciate the light ..... even the tiniest amount.

I liked the fact that Mack pushed ahead through the stone, through the blackness ..... through his fear ...... because Jesus had told him to go there and he had no doubt in Jesus .... and His purpose.

Mack has already come a long way.

What did you think about the "woman" telling Mack ...... it's not love that grows .... it's the "knowing" that grows and love then simply expands to fill the "knowing"?

I've always heard that your heart grows bigger .... like when you have another child .... your heart grows bigger to hold more love.

Mack is asked to choose 2 out his 5 children to go to Heaven (after finally admitting that he did, indeed, blame God) ..... and thus choose three who will go to hell. I think when I first read this part of the book, I wondered why Mack didn't "get it". Why he got so upset and didn't put two and two together.

But then again ..... I would suppose that if one gets the opportunity to spend a weekend with the Trinity .... many things might not "add up".

But this is where he finally does "get it" .... by not being able to make the choice and by offering himself up in the place of his children.

He got it.

And .... he got the chance to see Missy.

What an amazing gift that was.

I smiled and cried with him.

Especially when she ran straight into Jesus' arms and he lifted her up and spun her around.

Wow.

Back to the "blame" part ..... I liked this whole discussion .... especially the explanation about Missy's death not being part of God's plan ..... nothing in this fallen world is part of His plan now.

But we can make it better if we turn from our "independence" .... one of the things we (in this culture) hold most dear ..... our independence.

Thoughts?

And I wonder what our society would think about the sentence on page 167, "No one reaches their potential in your world."?

Of course the next sentence helps us understand ...... this life is only preparation for what God had in mind all along.

I will leave you with one of the last sentences and ask for your thoughts on it:

"Mackenzie, judgement is not about destruction, but about setting things right."

Again ..... sorry for the brevity, but this is where you jump in and give your thoughts and point out things that I did not include.

Now discuss .....

Easter Sunday .... no post ...

2009-04-12T23:00:00.001-05:00

I hope everyone had a good Easter.

If I have enough time tomorrow I'll try to write the next post. If not, then I'll most likely wait until next weekend ..... which just gives everyone that much more time to comment on last week's post!

Chapter 10: Wade in the Water

2009-04-05T14:51:00.002-05:00

Good afternoon, everyone.

Last week seemed to be a quiet week on the discussion front. Maybe we were all too pooped from the week before?!

I, for one, love all of the discussion ..... whether or not we agree with each other. Discussion is good. Hearing others' ideas is good. Sharing is good. Even not agreeing can be good!!!

So please don't hesitate to jump right in and share. Heck, if you're a bit rattled at the thought of posting, use the anonymous button! We're all fine with that. :)

Speaking of jumping right in ....... let's be like Mack and step out on Chapter 10.

(And reminding everyone again ...... just because I don't type something here does NOT mean that I missed it, didn't see it, didn't get it, didn't think it was important. I am choosing to write only a few things from each chapter ...... and then let everyone jump in and flesh those things out, or add new points, new views, new .... whatever!)

First, I was struck by the opening quote:

"New world -- big horizon

Open your eyes and see it's true

New world -- across the frightening

Waves of blue"

Yes, I'm obviously struck by it because I am looking out at an entirely different world than the one I thought I would be viewing. And yes, the thought of that (without Jim) is very frightening.

But it's starting to become less frightening ... and a bit bigger. Day by day. Breath by breath.

I realize that none of us can be certain (no matter how certain we want to be!) about our futures, but did this quote speak to anyone else?

I loved it when Jesus asked Mack if he wanted to go for a walk, Mack replied, "If you're going, I'm more than willing."

That made me smile. I love seeing how comfortable he is with Jesus ..... and how it's been pretty instinctive for Mack to be drawn to Him ...... and to now be excited to follow Him.

I also loved it when Mack said "damn" and then blushed and corrected himself .... like Jesus hadn't heard it before ..... coming from Mack, or even in Mack's mind. Too funny ---- the things we like to think that we can hide from God.

We make me laugh.

So did everyone see what was coming on the walk as Jesus was heading over the dock? Did we all realize that He would walk across the water?

I really enjoyed His humor with Mack ..... humor is big with me, big with my family. So I love that Jesus just watches him, and pokes fun at him, in a loving way.

Our sermon a church today was about Jesus being with us along our journey ..... in the little, sacred moments. It's not just the destination (Easter), but it's sharing the journey with Him ... even the grief and the pain.

So when Jesus says, on page 140, "I want to walk across with you." ---- I really got a visual of Him wanting to "be" with us ...... through everything. I liked that statement ....... it showed Mack that Jesus thought he was valuable. He wants to walk with him, spend time with him. Nothing big, really. Just a walk. But, in that "small, sacred moment" ...... what a big thing to Mack!

And I thought that Mack asked a very good question ..... at least in his head ..... " but how do you step off a dock onto water?" Can you imagine it? It certainly wouldn't feel like anything else we've stepped off on, would it?

Again, I laughed along with Jesus' humor when He didn't stop Mack before he got his shoes wet. He could've. But He didn't.

Why do YOU think that He didn't?

I really enjoyed the entire description of the walk ..... from the first, unsure step onto the water, to the last step off onto the rocks on shore. I liked that Mack could look down for trout .... and yet, not sink as Peter did when he looked down. Different looking down, for certain, but interesting (at least to me). I especially loved that Mack was "grinning from ear to ear just thinking about what he was doing."

Mack wonders aloud why stepping out with Jesus is so hard. He's knows he's afraid .... he's afraid of what most of us are ........ he defines it in terms of being afraid of how he'll look (like an "idiot") ..... but basically, he's afraid of trusting Jesus.

And as he's defining his fears he "imagines" what could happen ..... if he steps out.

And this brings up something very interesting ...... Jesus tells Mack that the power to imagine is a powerful ability (p 141).

"That power alone makes you so like us. But without wisdom, imagination is a cruel taskmaster."

And then He talks about living in the past, present and/or future.

He asks Mack where he spends most of his time .... in his mind.

And so I ask you ...... "where do you spend most of your time in your mind, in your imagination, in the present, in the past, or in the future?"

I'll go first ...... and it's probably obvious to all ...... my answer, at this point in my life, is the past. I don't spend much time looking at the future because I know, all too well, that it's very uncertain .... and it (in my powerful imagining) holds quite a bit of pain.

But I spend time in the past ..... though I do not, as Jesus says, have "an extended stay", because that, too, is very, very painful. I can now look at moments of the past without pain, but if I stay too long, the pain grows. I know that as each day passes the memories will become less and less painful ..... and I look forward to that.

What about you? Where does your "imagining" go? Do you find yourself fearing the future because of the things you imagine? The things/events you picture that don't include God there with you? (Yes, that sentence struck me, too.)

And what perfect sense .... we are desperate to control something ..... so we attempt to take power over our future by imagining how it will be ........

Thoughts?

Jesus talks about the earth, it's His and how much He cares for it ..... and how little we do. And how much more beauty there is to see .... more than will ever be seen on this side ...... "like special canvasses in the back of an artist's studio, but one day ..."

What an awesome day that will be, won't it?!

Then Mack asks Him why They just don't "fix" everything ..... which leads to more discussion of free will, submission, relationships of love and respect ..... and Jesus telling Mack (surprising Mack) that God, Sarayu and He are submitted to us in the same way that they are submitted to one another (p.145).

I'm guessing that Mack wasn't the only one surprised at this statement ........

Anyone?

Another sentence that made me stop and think is on p. 148: "Remember, I am not about performance and fitting into man-made structures; I am about being."

I. Love. This. Sentence.

Man-made structures ------ church buildings?

I see so many people, especially in our community, struggling with this concept ..... "I am about being."

I LOVE it ..... it seems so simple to me ...... now.

I feel like I'm saying it all of the time to people ...... just "be".

"Be" with one another.

"Be" with God.

Just "BE".

I think it takes a lot of energy to learn how to "be" ...... but once you've got it down ...... it's so very relaxing ..... and energy-boosting.

Thoughts?

OK, my last thought (or at least the last one I will WRITE about) ....... is really a question for you (from page 149):

So ........ did you ever wear a "WWJD" bracelet? And if so ....... your thoughts about what Jesus says about that? I have my own thoughts, but I think I've said enough for now.

It's time for you to jump in.

The water's quite warm ........ and safe.

Let's discuss ........

Chapter 9: A Long TIme Ago, in a Garden Far, Far Away

2009-03-29T15:43:00.003-05:00

Happy Sunday, everyone.

Well, I'm hoping to get my thoughts collected well enough about this chapter to make at least of bit of sense.

I am working on making my "job" here easier for me ..... I am not going to bring up every single thing that I see in these chapters (it was getting to be WAY too much time and pressure-from myself). Instead, I am going to force myself to only bring up a few things ..... and hopefully you all will fill in the rest. So ..... just because I don't write it here .... doesn't mean I didn't see it--nor does it mean that it's not important enough for YOU to write about it. Bring up EVERYTHING that God lets you see!!!!

The words in this chapter ...... the ideas, the thoughts, the lessons ..... are all churning around inside of me, making it difficult to focus ...... very much like the way Mack felt as he tried to follow Sarayu (I loved how he thought she was obviously not a being who is predictable!) through her garden and tried to see everything that was around him at the same time.

It was overwhelming ..... but in an oh, so very good way.

That's how I feel.

This chapter is "chaos in color", as Mack described the garden.

Mack tried to find some "order" in the garden but found instead that there was a "blatant disregard for certainty" (p. 128).

That explains my life ..... I have been seeking "order" over the past 15 months, but instead have found that "blatant disregard for certainty" ...... and I am finally realizing, as Mack did, that it is "confusing, stunning, and incredibly beautiful."

Wow ---- to see what's inside of me put into black and white ..... even more stunning and beautiful.

And I loved that he told Sarayu that her garden looked like a "mess" ...... and she replied, "What a wonderful compliment!"

I again notice the repeating theme of the overwhelming of the senses .... the fragrances, the aromas .... even to the point of being able to taste them.

The next thing that jumped out of my soul when I read it on the page .... was Sarayu's instruction to Mack: pull out everything that is beautiful to make room for something special.

Really?!! Mack, as we humans ...... couldn't understand that!

But again ...... it jumped out OF my soul and in front of me ........ this is definitely what God did, and has been doing since December 18, 2007. He took out the most beautiful thing in my garden, Jim ..... something I never would have agreed needed to be removed, or replaced ....... and left, in his place, a very large "wound in the (my) garden" (p. 131).

And now He's preparing and planting and tending to that wound ...... and it will eventually be as, if not more, beautiful as before.

I loved this line from Sarayu (p.131): "It's not the work (pulling out the beautiful things), but the purpose that makes it special. And, it's the only kind I do."

This sentence brought (and brings) tears to my eyes.

And I whisper, "Thank you ..... for loving me THAT much .... for having a purpose."

I also like the discussion of "good" and "bad". God don't do "bad" (forgive the slang). But He don't.

We, as humans, define what's bad (or even more serious ... what's "evil") when we are absent from God. I loved that she said that evil and darkness do not exist. Only Light and Good exist, but it's we who plunge ourselves into darkness when we distance ourselves from God. (p. 136).

Saraya goes so far as to say (in explaining the non-existence of evil) .... if we, as humans, give up our "right"(ha!) of "independence" (double ha!) ...... it could mean that ...

"... that in one instance, the good may be the presence of cancer or the loss of income ---or even a life."

There. Are. No. Words.

I also really liked how Sarayu described science (p. 132): " ... ---to discern and discover what we have hidden for you to find".

That made me smile.

I imagine it makes God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit smile a lot, too.

And ---- I thought this sentence was so powerful (in their discussion of poisonous plants, and safety while in God's presence) from Sarayu: "So, if you are not hearing my voice, it would be wise to take the time to understand the nature of the plant."

So very powerful with so much meaning ...... because we have so very many "plants" in our world.

There was a lot more said about our "rights" and the way we define things ..... and our striving to be independent beings ......SO much ........ but I'd like to stop here and have everyone else jump in and discuss.

I really loved this chapter ..... and seeing how clearly God is speaking to me through it.

When, on the last page, Mack says that he feels strangely at home and comfortable in that garden, Sarayu says:

"And well you should, Mackenzie (Janine), because this garden is your soul. This mess is you!

Together, you and I, we have been working with a purpose in your heart. And it is wild and beautiful and perfectly in process. To you it seems like a mess, but to me, I see a perfect pattern emerging and growing and alive --- a living fractal".

And I say ..... "Thank God!"

Now discuss ......

Chapter 8: A Breakfast of Champions

2009-03-22T14:35:00.003-05:00

Hi ..... it's me again (Janine). Thanks so much, Tom, for subbing in for me these past few weeks.

It's been rough .... physically and emotionally, but I'm hoping to find my "normal" (whatever the heck that is anymore) soon.

So .... on to the discussion:

First ...... I love the title of this chapater --- it gives a whole new meaning to that phrase (the one we usually see on a cereal box), doesn't it? It made me smile.

Also .... before we start with chapter 8, I'd like to look at the two last sentences of Chapter 7:

"Today had been a long day. Maybe he would wake up at home in his own bed after a night of vivid dreaming, but somewhere inside he hoped he was wrong." (emphasis mine).

I love that, even though it had been a tough day and he wasn't really fully participating .... he HOPED it would continue.

So .... the quote that starts Chapter 8 .... about growth ---- I think that many of us like to say that we want to grow ..... but don't we just want to "magically" be grown -- overnight? Just wake up and find that we've grown .... without any pain, or risk?

I also smiled along with Mack when he found the Gideon's Bible in the nightstand. :)

Mack had a "flying dream" that night .... his first in a very long time. I've had those, but like Mack, I don't think I've had one in a long time. Have you had them? Do we have them only as children and then lose them, as we lose our innocence? I don't have an answer here .... just throwing this out for discussion. What do you think?

Also, why do you think that God allowed the nightmare to violently pull him out of that amazing dream? Why, as Mack asks himself, hadn't God taken the nightmares away? Thoughts?

What do you think is behind Papa's questioning of Mack's dreams? Just wanting to force the issue with Mack? Do you think dreams really are a way of letting "bad things" go?

I also wonder what you thought about Mack's thought of Jesus (on page 117) -- that Jesus seemed "less godlike" than the other two .... and so he felt closer to him?

I'd like to know what you think about all of the aromas of food throughout this book. There is constantly something being cooked that smells so very good. And, have you noticed .... there's also always something that Mack can't identify .... not be smell, nor by sight .... but he knows it's good.

Thoughts?

On page 119 Papa says one of my most favorite lines in the book: "I love the ones I am angry with just a much as those I'm not."

We don't like this thought, do we? Our "humanness" wants the "bad ones" to be punished .... to be less loved than we are. Why? Because we're really so much better (or maybe we just haven't been "caught")? Why do we want to see the wrath of God smite someone? Because of our need for the power and the hierarchy ..... the order in which things should happen?

Could our world, the one we each are in now at this present time, function without hierarchy?

Papa agrees that people would use us if our relationships were out of that hierarchy, but she then says, "We're not asking you to do with others, Mack. We're asking you to do it with us."

Wow.

As an aside .... did you cringe, as I did, when Mack said (on page 119) "... if you're going to pretend to be God Almighty, you need to be a lot angrier."? That, my friends ..... at least for me, was the humanness in me, waiting for the wrath of God to smite him.

Gulp.

I loved how Sarayu tried to explain their "circle of relationship" to Mack. It sounds, and is, so awesome. Do you have relationships like that? No hierarchy .... just relationship?

What are your thoughts on creation now being on a very different path than what the three of Them desired? About the "matrix" and us yielding to it, rather than to Them?

Another line that I really loved (from Papa) is on page 125: "But your choices are also not stronger than my purposes, and I will use every choice you make for the ultimate good and the most loving outcome."

When I read that line I could hear my heart whisper, "I hope so".

Which leads me to what Papa says on page 126: "The real underlying flaw in your life, Mackenzie (Janine), is that you don't think I am good. If you knew I was good and that everything ---the means, the ends, and all the processes of individual lives --- is all covered by my goodness, then while you might not always understand what I am doing, you would trust me. But you don't."

--double gulp.

I'm working on it. Very, very hard. My head believes it, but my very broken heart is having a difficult time catching up with my head. I believe it's getting there ..... it's closer than it ever was .... so that's something.

How about you? Do you believe it?

And this admission brings me to the last lines of the chapter .... Mack tells Papa that he just can't imagine anything happening in the end that would justify what's happened to him, to Missy, to humanity.

I will leave you now with Papa's reply: "We're not justifying it. We are redeeming it."

Hallelujah.

Discuss .....

God on the Dock

2009-03-15T18:44:00.002-05:00

Beware the ‘Ides of March’. It’s me again. I offered to help Janine out by taking this off here full plate right now. Below are some things that jump out of this chapter for me. What things were particularly potent images for you?

I really identify with Mack as the 7^th chapter begins. At the end of the last chapter he has just finished up a real in-depth conversation with Papa in which some of his major assumptions were shaken to the root, and in which he gets an inkling that the relationship that Papa desires to have with him is more terrible and wonderful and incomprehensible than he could ever have imagined. And whenever I get little peeks into that space, I, too, need to find a way to pause and collect myself and try to analyze what’s happened and what it all means. And that’s where Mack is.

The scene Young paints here is one of my favorite in the book: Jesus drops a big bowl of Japanese sauce intended for the rice at dinner. It makes a mess, and Jesus and Papa and Sarayu are all laughing and teasing and working together to clean up the mess. Papa refers to Jesus as “greasy fingers”, accusing him of wanting to see if the bowl of sauce “would bounce.” I love this scene, it brings tears of joy to my eyes (even as I type) because it opens up a new side of God that we rarely have emphasized to us. And yet it rings so true. Think for a minute. What other aspects of human life might you dare to imagine God enjoying among Himself in the Trinity? What relational things do you enjoy that you’ve never stopped to consider as properly religious? Can you imagine consecrating those experiences or feelings as a part of the Trinity’s character?

And then, with a turn of the page, p.106, comes another very powerful image. Imagine yourself in a small group, Bible study, Sunday School class or the like. You go around sharing prayer requests. Then what do you do? A lot of times, what happens next is that someone intones, with that certain sacred vibrato reserved for prayers, a repetition or summary of what everyone just said. Think about it. If it is true that wherever two or three are gathered, He’s there, does that practice make sense? Look at the interaction that occurs on p.106. Mack discovers a new dimension, a new reality of what prayer really is. If you could really take this to heart, how would your prayers change? What would corporate prayer look like? This is powerful, life-changing stuff if you let it penetrate.

And then, if that isn’t enough to blow you out of old habits, look across the page to p.107 and think about what it means to “have devotions.” This little section just blows me away. I almost never WANT to “have devotions.” But to be a part of something like this? That is what me heart longs for. Do you have any tips or secrets to help make time with God into this kind of experience? I could easily spend all day doing this.

I like the interaction between Mack and Jesus on p.110-111. We see the nature and character of God and the purpose of man before Him. I particularly chuckle at Mack’s comments in the middle of p.111 about Jesus’ appearance. What do you think Jesus looks like? A few years ago the BBC made a small splash when they published a picture made by forensic study of ancient Jewish skeletons. It was the scientist’s best guess of what Jesus might have looked like. Have you ever imagined Jesus looking like this? And yet, if Jesus was fully human, isn’t this a more “real” looking person than the “pretty” Warner Salman Jesus that we often think of?

At the bottom of the page, and onto the next, Mack asks himself if he really knew Jesus. “Maybe what he knew was an icon, an ideal, an image …not a real person.” Do you think it is even possible for us to avoid this?

And then look where the conversation goes. Doesn’t it get right to the heart of one of the big issues of life. What is the purpose of man? Look at the description at the bottom of p.112. Do you really have an awareness of the fact that Jesus’ Spirit has taken up dwelling within you? How do you sense that? What are the experiences that make it most apparent to you?

Finally, I love the explanation Jesus gives Mack at the top of 113, about the effect on us of the Spirit’s indwelling. I could go on at length here, but suffice to say that the way this ties into the story of The Fall is, to me, really profound.. How do you think this process works? How does it tie into the creation of man for you?

Well, I’ll quite here so you can share your insights. What did you see that I’ve missed? Where do you disagree with me? Where can you take things deeper?

Thanks for your great discussion last week.

2009-03-08T14:50:00.002-05:00

A Fraction of 3.14159

Janine is still not up to her usual level of wellness and wholeness, so she asked me if I'd step in again. So you're stuck with me for another week. THAT ought to be motivation enough to pray for Janine! ;-)

Now we're into the good stuff! This is where my copy begins to run over with marginal notes. Please bear with me. Brevity is not my strong suit...but I'll try.

Don't overlook the quote at the beginning of the chapter from Jacques Ellul. Young mentioned here that Ellul is one of his favorite philosophers. So the quote is, I think, an important key...to the chapter as well as to life.

I love the first shot. Papa gives Mack total freedom...but with consequences. He can talk to Papa, to Jesus, to Sarayu, or he can go fishing...but he has to clean the fish. But it strikes me that freedom can never come without consequences. Not even for God. He was free to create or not create. But if He created, there were consequences. Man would rebel. This suggests that the freedom/consequences principle underlies all of creation. Mack could have just gone out to the end of the pier and sat. The consequence would have been the lost opportunity to know God. What have been the times when you have lost opportunities as a result of exercising freedom? Have you ever wished you could take back some of those moments and get a do-over?

Look at p.89, "You're not supposed to do anything. You're free to do whatever you like." Do you feel that freedom in your spiritual life? in your daily life? Why? or why not?

Or later on that page when Jesus says, "Don't go because you feel obligated. ... Go because it's what you want to do." What do you do out of obligation? What would happen if you only did what you wanted to do?

At the bottom of that page, I love the way Mack glances around the room looking at how different things are; the missing blood stain. God makes ALL things new. The Bible tells us that all creation waits for renewal as a result of man's choice for independence. what are the things in your life that God has not yet finished making new?

On the next page there is a funny (ironic) scene where Mack is trying to hide his questions and attitudes from God. (Good luck with that!) But what is so wonderful about this -- we all do it -- is, look at Papa's reaction: "still open, full of life, and inviting." This so moves me. How long will it take me to really understand that I can't hide anything from Him, but that His healing only comes when I open up and acknowledge those attitudes and questions. God wants to talk about the elephant in the room. We're the ones that limit His help.

And I love that God loves rock-and-roll!

There's a huge point on p.91. Mack finds that "None of his old seminary training was helping in the least." And here I do not want to be misunderstood; seminry training is a good thing. But all our training, seminary or otherwise, most often trains us to think inside the box. I have an MBA. It taught me, among other things, how to do proper accounting. It didn't teach me how to be creative in figuring out how to finance a project. I was a US Army Infantry officer. They taught me how to lead men into battle. They didn't teach me how to relate to my men in a way that would foster respect...except the respect of rank...based ultimately on fear. But God, as Mack is beginning to discover, is too big for the biggest of boxes. In what ways have you discovered aspects of God's character that are too big for the conventional boxes you may have grown up with?

On p.92 Mack finally blurts out the question that everyone must, sooner or later, face: "If you couldn't take care of Missy, how can I trust you to take care of me?" If you haven't asked that question of God yet, you will. Or else you will be forever mere acquaintances with Him. How have you confronted that question with God?

One of the high points for me, and one of the huge obstacles for a lot of folks, comes on p.93. Papa explains why He appears to Mack as She. Suppose you were describing the book to either, a non-Christian friend, or to a very conservative Christian friend for who Papa presents and obstacle. How would you describe/defend Paul Young's use of the character?

What do you think of Young's comments on the top half of p.94? What are the implications of that for our world? for men? for women?

On p.96, there is a huge point made as Mack and Papa discuss the nexus of God's love and our pain. the image used is Christ on the cross. Mack accuses Papa of deserting Jesus. Pap responds, "Don't forget, the story didn't end in His sense of forsakenness. ..." In the margin I wrote, "Our pain is NEVER the end of the story." At times our pain may consume us. But it is never the end of the story.

On p.96, there is a great discussion about the nature of Christ. I suppose that theologians could argue about the way in which Young describes it. I once had a pastor (for Rick: Ron) ask me, Do you think that Jesus thought the world was flat? (Assuming that all His contemporaries did.) And it is an interesting question. And Young's description is interesting, because Hebrews tells us that we have a High Priest who is like us. And that means if He lived by virtue of some special divine ability that we don't have, then that passage in Hebrews is called into question. But if Young's description is true, then it means that each of us has the potential to live as Jesus did. And that is very exciting stuff.

I love the description of Trinity on p.101. What strikes you in that conversation? What does it say to you about relationships? What are the implications of the concept in broader terms as we look at the creation around us?

Finally, one underlying tension for Mack in this whole chapter is Papa's appearance as a woman. What does that mean to you? What are the implications or applications that you see in Papa?

You all did great last week in jumping in on the ideas the book offers, as well as seeing lots of other good things that relate to the topics. Let's do it again. I so love reading your thoughts and insights.

Tom

Guess Who's Coming to Dinner

2009-03-02T20:00:00.003-06:00

For me, this is where the book begins. For me, 'The Shack' is a book of ideas; theological ideas. All that has come before, and the story line as it continues on from this point is merely the picture frame, the context, that is necessary to provide a foundation on which to set some very interesting ideas about God and man. And if you can read beyond this chapter without getting your mind stretched you are a very unusual person indeed. I wrote elsewhere that I almost consider the book a litmus test of how constrained our thinking is. Paul Young begins in this chapter to really stretch it.

The first few pages continue the stage setting. Still, he begins with an idea. How does the notion of rational, irrational, and suprarational sit with you? Can you give any examples of where you see those concepts in the world around you?

How do you feel about Mack's whole process of preparing for the trip? His keeping it a secret from Nan "for her sake"? Do you think that sort of thing has any place in the life of a practicing Christian? When? Why?

Top half of page 71; Mack is talking about the note, does God send notes, does He care enough? And then Missy's death as retributive judgement on Mack. How would you address those topics if you had a non-Christian friend who was reading the book? ("Always be prepared to give to any man an answer for the hope that is within you...")

This chapter presents us with two very comprehensible images of God. Before he gets to the Shack Mack's image is of a grandfatherly Gandalf (p.73). After he gets there he sees "Aunt Jemima". ;-) It seems a lot of people are comfortable with Gandalf -- a very mortal image -- but they're very uncomfortable with Aunt Jemima -- an equally mortal image. What images can you recall God using, either in name or in actual image, in scripture? Which ones do you find most helpful? A lot of the reaction against the book has stemmed from Aunt Jemima. Other than the obvious -- she's a woman -- what do you think might be other reasons for this?

Page 78; have you ever raged at God like Mack did? How do you think God reacts to that? How did it make you feel after you were done? What happened next for you? I wrote in the margin at the bottom of the page, "The details may vary but the pain, the experience, is always the same." I do not relish the times when I've been at The Shack. But, by the same token, I pity the person who has never been there. It is only there that God can come to meet us in full force, it seems. The image of Mack, on the floor, tracing his fingers in Missy's blood stain are so powerful. I wonder if Papa stooped down to trace His fingers in the blood at the base of the Cross.

Page 80-81; I love the breaking out of spring. It reminds me of Paul Young's description of how Sarayu's name came to be. (On the MP3s from his talks at Capital Christian Center, 1/25/09.)

The rest of the chapter is LOADED. What is the protocol for meeting God? Mack struggles with this on 82. What's yours? God has numerous names in Scripture. Here He is "The God of the Unexpected". How many ways can you find that coming to the fore? What characteristics do you see of God's person set out in this final stage of the chapter? How do you see God "stooping" to Mack? How does this fit with the rational/irrational/suprarational? What strikes you about the specific portraits of the three persons of the Godhead?

Macks a priori assumptions about God get pretty thoroughly blown away. What are your assumptions? What would a complete and accurate image of God look like to you?

Let's discuss. (And thanks, Janine, for the priviledge and honor of filling in. I know I did it different -- we're different people -- I hope I did it half as well. Now you lay down and get better. ;-)

No post this week

2009-03-01T17:27:00.002-06:00

I am not posting this week.

I had surgery on Thursday and, along with my surgeon, underestimated the impact of the surgery.

I thought I would be home the next day .... I'm still in the hospital and am hoping to go home tomorrow, but even that is not certain.

So .....

unless someone else wants to jump in and lead the next chapter ..... I'll plan on doing it next weekend.

I'm sorry for the lull .......

all prayers are appreciated.

Janine

Chapter 4: The Great Sadness

2009-02-22T18:07:00.001-06:00

Chapter 4 starts off with a quote (as do they all):

"Sadness is a wall between two gardens." - Kahlil Gibran

A wall --- a division, a boundary .... and depending on the size, so very hard to get over.

What are your thoughts on this quote? This wall? And the two gardens?

Mack now takes a moment to think about Missy. He's just come in from the water, from saving his son, so he's of course been preoccupied. He looks towards the picnic table, where she had been coloring, and she's gone.

And so the search for Missy begins.

Immediately he is surrounded by his new friends .... who take charge and start searching.

Ahhh, the gift of friends who can, and will, surround and take charge.

Mack prays the first prayer of his search .... "Oh God, help me find her ... Oh God please help me find her."

It's interesting that when we are in kind of panic mode ..... our prayers become very, very simple.

When I was told by the surgeon that they were going to "try one more time", knowing that the one more time wasn't going to work, all I could pray ..... moan really, was "please, please, please, please ..." over and over and over. I had no other words. None. I moaned those words for about another 45 minutes or so ..... until a nurse came out to tell me that the surgeon wanted to see me.

Big, big event ..... very few words.

Mack needs Nan. He feels that Nan would know what to do .... what the "right thing" was. He feels very alone and lost.

And then comes the guilt ... the first of much, much guilt. "Oh God, what kind of father am I?"

Soon he would be asking the same thing of God .....

Next comes the bargaining .... even though Mack knows that it's dumb to promise things to God, he can't help himself ..... he prays and promises.

We'll promise anything when we get desperate enough, won't we? Even though .... we know it's irrational. But do we really believe that it won't help?

I wonder.

The search grows bigger by the minute, as they realize she is no where around the camp site. And then we hear that a truck has been sighted, with a little girl matching Missy's description in it.

And the search .... and the panic ... grows.

Mack goes back to comb over the campground. And sees the coloring book, and the page Missy was coloring .... a picture of the Indian princess.

Ironic?

Foreshadowing.

And the color of her favorite crayon, red ......

It's missing, but is soon pointed out to Mack ..... next to her shoe, which shows she was probably involved in a struggle. This brings a physical reaction to Mack ..... as if he had been punched in the stomach.

Have you ever had that happen? I have ..... but it had nothing to do with Jim's death.

I heard sudden and very, very unexpected news .... and felt as if someone actually punched me in the stomach at that very moment ..... I literally could not breathe.

And then he sees the ladybug pin. Ladybug.

The ladybug was safer at home ...... as they would have been.

Thoughts?

And then Mack (and we) find out the significance of this pin ... it's the sign a serial killer has left behind. He's done it four times before.

And all hope drained from Mack. And for the first time since she disappeared he lets his mind go to all of the horrific places it chooses. And we are told that once it started .... he couldn't stop it. He had visions of what happened to Missy. And they were mixed in with visions of good. Memories mixed with nightmares. He even started thinking about the future ... her funeral ... and what he would say.

I felt all of that, too .... during those last 45 minutes. I find it so amazing exactly what I experienced is described here ..... all of the endless thoughts rolling over and over in my brain, and also the future ... and how could I possibly have it without him ...... all crashing around up there. It's almost like planning ahead without REALLY knowing the outcome. Really.

And then one more thought .... also not for the last time: "God, how could this happen?"

Now the scene shifts to the hotel room where Nan finds Mack .... totally lost, totally in grief and despair. They both grieved together there, though Nan seemed to be more comforting to Mack.

The next day there are several departures. The goodbyes are said as everyone reluctantly begins to go home. We are told how much these friend have done for Mac & Nan (and the kids). Jesse and Sarah "lifted the huge burden of communication with the public from both Nan and Mack and seemed to be everywhere as they skillfully wove threads of peace into the turbulence of emotions." p. 54

Even in the description of all that is horrible here .... that last sentence is beautiful.

God was weaving peace in it.

Thoughts?

As everyone says good bye we are told what's going on with Josh and Kate. Josh totally lets his emotions show .... Kate does not. She becomes a "rock". Sounds like something she may have inherited? And that something isn't a good thing, is it? She's just starting to hold it all in, to be busy for others .... to not express or acknowledge her pain. And we all know that should not be happening.

Mack then meets the FBI agent he had spoken to earlier on the phone, Sam. She starts asking him questions and one of her questions shakes him even more .... could anyone have been watching them at the camp site? Could this evil person have been waiting, and watching them for a couple of days ... waiting for the perfect opportunity?

Ummmmm .... sounds very, very much like someone else we all know ...... Satan.

Thoughts?

In a place where Mack thought they were all safe .... they were not.

We all want to be safe. We all want to feel protected and to protect our loved ones.

But, like Missy ..... are we ever that safe? No matter how hard we try?

And now ... the search comes to an end.

The truck has been found and so Mack goes with the police and FBI to see where it is.

And there ...... again .... in the midst of such beauty ..... is something very ugly and sinister .... the Shack.

A shack that may have once been a very "safe" place, a lovely place ... a home.

And now ... it's a cabin ..... for hunters ...... and poachers.

Thoughts?

And so we find out that Missy had been there .... but now is not. All that's left of her is her "torn and blood-soaked red dress".

Again .... red.

The Shack .... is empty.

And .... several days later ... so is the coffin at Missy's memorial service.

Emptiness, grief .... no closure.

Not that closure would have made any of this any easier.

Would it?

And so Mack starts to re-enter life, all the while piling up the guilt and what-ifs on his heart.

Kate turns more and more inward, causing concern for her parents.

She seems to grieve very much like her father, though he tries to emerge from his grief for his family.

Grief is a very hard thing to emerge from. It's long and it's hard. So, in trying to emerge from it for the sake of his family .... is he really just pushing aside what he will ultimately have to go through?

As Mack's guilt grows, his relationship with God shrinks.

He tries to "embrace a stoic, unfeeling faith", even though he finds no comfort or peace in it.

How many times do we do that? Try to "fool" God, or others .... by being stoic.

By not feeling .... we can't feel, especially peace.

So now we understand the revulsion that Mack felt when he read the note. And now he struggles with its author .... whoever it is. Could it be God? At this point he's not sure it's not.

Who's to say what God can do?

But why? Why would God cruelly ask him to go back to the Shack? Why would God, who knows how hurt Mack is, sign the note .... Papa? Didn't He know how much that would hurt?

And why, Mack asks, would He allow it to be a note from the killer .... who might be taunting him, or luring him to leave his family ..... "unprotected".

That protection thing again.

We like to think we can ..... but we can't.

Crap happens ..... and we can't always find someone to blame .... we can't protect ourselves or our families from the crap in this fallen world.

Why do we try so hard?

The last thought I'll leave you with is Mack struggling to define God. He knows that God can't be put in a box ..... but isn't that what Mack had been trying to do all along?

Isn't that what we try to do? We try to limit Him, or define Him, or make excuses for Him.

Mack put the note in a box ..... as if putting God into that tin box on his desk.

But God can't be put into a box.

But maybe He can put into a book (Book?).

"Especially an expensive one bound in leather with gilt edges, or was that guilt edges?" (pg 66)

Wow .....

And then ...."what good was following God at all? Look where it got him."

Again .... wow.

Guilt, anger .... following God.

How many people are enslaved in this idea ..... following God out of guilt, which most certainly leads to anger?

Discuss.

Chapter 3:The Tipping Point

2009-02-15T14:43:00.000-06:00

Now that you've read the book (I'm assuming) do you find that, as you re-read parts here and there in participating in our Discussion, you missed so much the first time?

I am finding certain sentences that break my heart ...... and yet give me hope.

Case in point: the quote that opens this 3rd chapter ---- "The soul is healed by being with children."

My thoughts at this moment are too overwhelming for me to write. It's a place where I cannot go, for now.

And so I ask for yours ......... thoughts?

This chapter also opens with the beauty of nature. Ever been to Oregon? I have ... I was born there. It is stunningly beautiful in many, many places.

Here are a couple of pictures of Wallowa Lake State Park, where this chapter is set:

Again, the irony of something so evil ..... set in something so beautiful. And that this kind of beauty is very, very often 'God-thought-provoking'.

Thoughts?

Mack makes new friends in this chapter, Vicki and Emil Ducette and Jesse and Sarah Madison. These three families get along well and spend a good deal of time together on Monday, taking a tramcar to the summit of Mount Howard, enjoying a lunch hosted by the Madisons and hiking to various lookouts throughout the afternoon.

I would guess that, although Mack enjoyed their company, he had no earthly idea that God has put them into his life ..... for that very moment ..... but mostly, for the moments yet to come.

I wonder how often we do that? How often do we not SEE people for what they truly are in our lives? How often do we overlook gifts from God ..... and so never see them, never receive them?

Thoughts?

I am again struck by one of Mack's thoughts .... and the timing of it. While sitting in the tramcar on the way back down the mountain, tired but happy and looking at the children: "This is one of those rare and precious moments," thought Mack, "that catches you by surprise and almost takes your breath away."

This thought strikes me very acutely, and painfully, because I was thinking almost the exact same thing ..... the day before the event that would rip away my heart.

And it makes me stop and wonder ..... how many other people are blessed enough to pause and ponder those blessings ...... before tragedy strikes?

How many times are we aware, really aware, that we are blessed?

It's also touching that the very next thought he had was of Nan .... and wishing she were there because then everything would be perfect.

And I wonder .... would it have been? How would things have been different if Nan had been there?

The next thought he has brought me to tears the second time I read it. He's holding Missy while she's sleeping, looking at the dirt and sweat on her face and yet seeing the innocent, beautiful child that she is. And then he thinks, "Why do they have to grow up?"

And I'm crying now, as I type those words .... because she didn't.

OK .... taking a deep breath and moving on .....

Later that night Mack gets the opportunity to sit around a dying campfire and spend some time with Jesse and Sarah. The kids and the Ducettes had gone to bed.

During this peaceful, quiet time we find out about Mack's three most important relationships.

First, Sarah asks him about Nan, whom he loves and loves to talk about.

Then Jesse's gentle questioning leads him to talk about God, Papa ..... whom he's less comfortable discussing.

And then .... after more gentleness ..... he talks about his father, whom he really doesn't want to talk about.

None of this was on purpose .... well, not on human purpose. One topic just led to the next, which led to the next. But it was God's purpose, wasn't it? He used Sarah and Jesse to gently bring these thoughts out of Mack. They didn't plan for it to happen, but He did. And He gave them listening hearts and gentle words to help guide the thoughts out of Mack's head, where he typically liked to keep such thoughts hidden.

One little conversation ..... that led to so much information.

Thoughts?

Before this night ends we see that Mack, once again, is aware .... and thankful, of how very blessed he is.

"As he sat mesmerized by the fire and wrapped in its warmth, he prayed, mostly prayers of thanksgiving. He had been given so much. Blessed was probably the right word. He was content, at rest, and full of peace."

And then ....... "Mack did not know it then, but within twenty-four hours his prayers would change, drastically."

....... so much can change in less than 24 hours ........ can't it?

The last few pages of this chapter are about the next morning ...... and the jarring end of peace and contentment.

First, as Mack is making pancakes he accidentally burns two of his fingers .... pretty badly. Burns .... they hurt for such a long time, don't they? Constantly taking our minds of what's happening around us and making us focus on the intensity of the pain.

Interesting .... as he was trying to do something good, and fun, for the kids ..... making pancakes for a camping breakfast, a "feast" .... everything started to go wrong. He burned his fingers, which caused him to knock over the stove and griddle and drop the bowl of pancake batter.

The kids had cold cereal with half and half (ugh) while Mack spent an hour trying to clean up the camp site while dealing with the pain in his fingers.

And then the next event, that should have been such a fun thing, went horribly wrong .....

Josh and Kate's canoe trip.

Mack waved at Kate (another good thing), which caused Kate to wave back ..... only she had a paddle in her hand, which caused her to lose her balance and tip the canoe, and both kids fell into the lake.

I wonder how much guilt Mack later felt about that wave?

And I think it's interesting that --- after jumping in the lake, rescuing Josh (who was drowning), reviving Josh by performing mouth-to-mouth (IN the water!), making it back to solid ground and seeing that the two kids were OK ---Mack wraps his arms around Emil and tells him to stop feeling guilty because it wasn't his fault (it was Emil's canoe). No guilt. No blame.

Wouldn't it be nice if, every time we feel misplaced guilt, we would feel strong arms wrap around his and hear someone emphasize strongly in our ear, "Stop it! This wasn't your fault and everyone's okay."?

And so I end this week's post with the sentence that summed up this whole chapter (and the next ones) for me:

"It is remarkable how a seemingly insignificant action or event can change entire lives." (p. 40)

Chatper 2, The Gathering Dark

2009-02-08T14:42:00.000-06:00

So here we are again, one very busy and very discussion-filled week later.

I have thoroughly enjoyed everyone's insight and sharing.

Before I go into the Discussion, I'd like to remind everyone of a couple of things.

First, by now you've probably all learned that the Posts are not updated throughout the week, so if you've selected "subscribe to posts" you've been a bit disappointed. I will write one post per week and then let the comments flow.

So you might want to click on "subscribe to comments" at the upper left of this blog. That way you will get an e-mail every time someone comments and you'll be able to keep up with the Discussion a bit easier.

Or you could just come to the blog and catch up with the comments when you can.

Secondly, if you have your own blog you might want to promote our Discussion blog there. You can paste the picture and the link into your side bar, or just mention it in posting, as Melanie did.

The more people who jump in with us, the bigger the Discussion.

OK, here we go.

Chapter 2 begins with a thaw in the weather and the return of Nan and the kids. Nan soon discovers that Mack had hidden the fact that he had been hurt, but he does not reveal the note.

We are very quickly introduced to "The Great Sadness".

Ahhh, the heaviness of those words for me.

At first, it would appear that TGS (easier to type) is depression. But we soon find out that it is so much more.

TGS affects every aspect of Mack's life, physically, emotionally, spiritually ...... every corner and every fiber of his being.

"He ate, worked, loved, dreamed and played in this garment of heaviness, weighed down as if he were wearing a leaden bathrobe--trudging daily through the murky despondency that sucked the color out of everything." (p. 25).

I totally get TGS. I, too, can feel it and am weighed down immediately at its description. It even makes it more difficult for me to type about it at this very moment. The heaviness is so .... very, very heavy.

What do you see, feel, sense, think of .... when you read about TGS?

The author rolls right into the introduction of Missy's disappearance here. He doesn't solve the mystery, but just introduces it.

And then he brings in a little foreshadowing again ..... Missy's insect collection.

Interestingly enough, Missy has a ladybug. Thoughts?

She wants to bring her collection along on a camping trip that Mack is preparing to take the kids on. Mack says it's OK, however Nan nixes the idea .... saying, "Trust me, they're safer here".

As I re-read those words for the first time, TGS settled into my heart. The irony and tragedy of them .... they would be safer at home. "They"........ all of them, but especially Missy, would have been safer ..... at home.

Sigh.

Mack and the children set out on the drive. There is some description of the scenic drive , the stop at a store and a short hike. It's during this hike that we learn about the Indian legend that Missy loves to hear about. Hopefully you've all read the book and know the legend I'm talking about .... the kind of legend we've probably all heard at one time or another. A legend of sacrifice for salvation.

Missy asks to hear the story again, but this time, her response at the end of the story is different. She didn't respond. She turned and headed to the van.

Thoughts?

Their journey continues and they reach the campground, get everything set up and then eat dinner.

And Mack looks around ...... takes it all in ..... and in his contentment, we are told "He was a rich man, he thought to himself, in all the ways that mattered." (p.29)

This one sentence brought tears to my eyes. I was there. I thought that ..... all of the time, but also very, very near to the moment when I suddenly became not-quite-as-rich.

And when something like that happens, it is soon followed by feelings of guilt.

Thoughts?

Another sentence that caught my heart is on page 30, close to the middle of the page.

"Of all the places he sensed the presence of God, out here, surrounded by nature and under the stars was one of the most tangible."

We've all experienced that, right? Seeing, feeling God in nature.

What caught my heart was this ..... in the very place where Mack sensed God's presence most, would be the very place of vile darkness and evil.

Thoughts?

On the very next page we are introduced to what will become the theme for this story. Missy decides to start questioning Mack about the Indian legend. She asks about whether it really happened, and if Jesus' death was really a legend.

And then she gets to the heart of this book: "Then how come he's (God) so mean?"(p.31)

Ahhhhhhhhhh, the question Mack would ask himself over and over and over.

And you? When (I'm just going with the assumption that we all have) have you asked that question? Or maybe you haven't let yourself dare to ask it ..... maybe you've only kept it hidden in your mind. Hidden from who, really?

And then, the heart-breaking question from a little girl to her father: "Then, will God ever ask me to jump off a cliff?"(p.32)

Heartbreaking for Mack to hear ..... and heartbreaking for us to re-read .......

.... because we know the answer.

The darkness is indeed gathering.

Now ..... discuss.

And We're Off .....

2009-02-01T13:41:00.000-06:00

..... on what will hopefully be quite an adventure.

Please don't expect each week's post to be posted this early in the day. I am just realizing that since it's Super Bowl Sunday, it might be more difficult for me to do this tonight (I don't always recognize things ahead of time, so I'm giving myself kudos for this one!).

Before I start I'm offering up an apology because .... I'm already changing things.

In re-reading this book, and going chapter by chapter to really dig into and not just read it ..... it has become clear to me that I cannot lead this Discussion 5 chapters at a time. Not even 2 chapters at a time.

There is so much to be found within each chapter (and I'm sure way more than even I've found) that we will proceed one chapter at a time.

For those of you who enjoy getting to the bottom of things, or "landing the plane", I hope you will hang in there. I know that I have so much to learn from all of you from your insights that I can't possibly do this Discussion justice by cutting off too big of a slice every week.

Before we begin with Chapter 1, I'd like to point you in the direction of some info on the author here. This page gives some background information on William Paul Young. Not a lot, because as he points out, "Facts alone might help you understand where a person has been, but often hide who they actually are."

I would like to add a bit more information about Mr. Young: during the time that he was a missionary's child he suffered from abuse while in that mission field. His father was a very harsh and very critical father (this is not the abuse to which I referred). He suffered a lot of brokenness in his life (as we all do, to one degree or another) and his brokenness manifested itself in some horrible choices as an adult. This book in also a manifestation ..... but not of his brokenness ..... of his healing. It was his wife who encouraged him to write this book, for the telling of his healing to his children.

If you'd like to learn more about him, you can find his blog here.

I will just make some general observations about Chapter 1 and we'll go from there.

Please feel free to add any comments and observations you may have about the Foreward, as well.

Chapter 1: A Confluence of Paths

The first thing that came to me was the weather. And not just a vague description of the weather that day, but a vividly detailed description that made me feel that coldness in my bones.

The scene is set --- it is winter and it is horribly snowy, icy and windy. Symbolism?

I liked what he said about there being "something joyful about storms that interrupt routine." (p.15) He spoke about storms releasing from our schedules, expectations, demands, etc. I totally agreed with that and wondered what you thought? I know that many of us here in the Houston area experienced that during the last hurricane, when we had no power for 2 (more or less) weeks. Of course that eventually got very old, but at first it was almost freeing. No one was expected to be anywhere. People were more relaxed. Neighbors met neighbors .... many for the first time. Of course that probably wouldn't happen in a winter ice storm, but it would free up your schedule, right?

But then he also mentions that there are other people who don't get any joy when things are shut down. They can't blame anyone for things not being done. Would those be people for whom a loss of control would be maddening?

The next thing that struck me was on page 16, his description of Mack's trip to the mailbox:

"When you face the force of an ice storm, you don't exactly walk boldly forward in a show of unbridled confidence. Bluster will get you battered." (emphasis mine).

I would dare say that's true of any kind of storm. But that many times, our culture thinks we should walk boldly forward in confidence, blustering ourselves in motion. And it is my opinion that when we do that ..... we do indeed get battered.

On to the note. Did you notice that at the very mention of the shack ..... AND of God (yes, in using Papa) what Mack instantly felt? A wave of nausea that rolled into anger.

I wonder how many people feel that same kind of emotion at the mention of God? I wonder how many people would admit that they have ever felt it?

I will.

I will bring up two more things that we're introduced to in this chapter before closing.

One is Mack's daughter, Kate, and the knowledge that Kate has problems that leave Nan, his wife, at a complete loss on how to fix them. What really struck me was what she said to Mack about praying and praying for Papa to help but .... "it feels like he isn't listening".(p.21).

I could write a book on that comment! You?

Mack immediately responds with, "Honey, I'm sure God knows what he's doing. It will all work out." The words brought him no comfort but he hoped they might ease the worry he could hear in her voice. "I know," she sighed. "I just wish he'd hurry up."(p.22)

And there, my friends, would be a whole 'nother book!

We'll see Kate's problems played out further into the book.

Mothers want ...... mothers need ...... to be able to fix their children. In many, many ways, for the good ...... and sometimes not.

Thoughts?

The other fact we see in this chapter is that Mack is hiding things from Nan. He keeps a tight lid on his emotions, thoughts, fears ..... his pain. This will also be a bigger part of the story.

OK, those are my thoughts on Chapter one. Now it's your turn ...... please tell us what you saw in this chapter, what words struck you, any symbolisms you recognized.

You don't have to just respond to my thoughts and questions ..... though of course you may, but please feel encouraged to tell us YOUR thoughts, whether you agree with me or someone else or not.

Especially if you do not!

After all, what kind of a Discussion would this be if there were none?

Are you ready?

2009-01-22T08:35:00.000-06:00

I hope you are! I know I am. This will be a "blog/book club" that's open to anyone who's interested in discussing. I'm hoping that "The Shack" will be the starting point.

First, let me introduce myself: I'm Janine and I am not an expert on "The Shack", nor on any book, or really anything .... other than my own life.

But this book spoke to me in a huge way during a "huge" time in my life. My husband Jim, half of my body, heart and soul, was ripped from my life a year ago.

This blog is not about him, not about my grief, not about me. But my grief led me to "The Shack" and made me identify so much with the main character and his life and feelings that it had quite an impact on me.

I have mentioned this book several times on my personal blog and received a lot of feedback.

And one day, the idea for this blog came to me. So here we are.

You don't have to have already read the book ..... we will go a bit at a time.

And ..... if you have read the book .... and you didn't really like it .... don't worry .... and please don't let that stop you from joining in. We want DISCUSSION, which involves all kinds of opinions and ideas.

So here's my plan (and please keep in mind that "the best laid plans ......." and be patient with me, just in case life interrupts my plan sometimes):

I will make the first official post on Sunday evening, February 1st and we will go from there. If I can stay organized I will post discussion questions every Sunday evening and then open things up for discussion.

I will not pre-read/OK comments (as I do on my personal blog) but do reserve the right to delete comments that are not beneficial to the Discussion (which just means nothing vulgar, hateful ..... you know, that kind of thing; share your opinions about the book freely, but not about the people who are here).

OK ....... to prepare for the first Discussion, read chapters 1 through 5.

If you have any questions or comments for me, e-mail me at jeggerstx@gmail.com

See you Sunday, February 1st!!!

Janine